maximising wipers using a mechanical trick??

[ferslash]

Guys i saw day ago the nice design of Scottsim, http://www.x-sim.de/forum/viewtopic.php?t=766
he called "wiper 2DOF for the heavier driver", he introduces an interestig concept the "lever to recuce wiper work" (new to my, maybe it was shown before)

the image Scott uploade was this

you can see how the actual weight is lifted by a vertical structure holding a lever...

my question is this: we all know that wipers are grate since they are almost free at a car junk yard, but, on the other side, they have limited life bobbuild told me that he made calculus of around 60 hrs, and... on the other hand when we use wiper to actually hold a sim structure they are not that strong, it come to my mind the florinsky case, he had to buy stronger motors to move his platform... so..

if i use wipers, and consider what Scottsim proposed, but, i enlarge the lever, i should result in

1. less work for the wipers, so larger life?
2. the wiper will use the "lever" effect so it will be able to hold more weight? and maybe be able to move a platform like the one florinsky did?

consider this pic (sorry for my crayola drowing)


so... what do you think?

[prodigy]

When you say Florinsky, it sounds like he is a symphony composer

Well, for your first question, less work for wiper or easier work is surely better for it and will expand its life.

As for other question, I didn't noticed that project with wipers and levers till now, but it looks interesting though.

[yokoyoko]

the wiper will use the "lever" effect so it will be able to hold more weight? and maybe be able to move a platform like the one florinsky did?

A wiper or any motor can produce some torque [N m].... A newton metre is a unit of torque. One newton-metre is equal to the torque resulting from a force of one newton applied perpendicularly to a moment arm which is one metre long. Like here:

force.PNG (9.53 KiB) Viewed 3351 times

With a lever arm, you can now either increase the force [N] OR the way [m]. In your example in the drawing indeed would the force be higher but you would have little movement on the simulator.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lever

When you say Florinsky, it sounds like he is a symphony composer

.... and the oscar for the funniest guy of the day goes to ...

[ferslash]

When you say Florinsky, it sounds like he is a symphony composer

Well, for your first question, less work for wiper or easier work is surely better for it and will expand its life.

As for other question, I didn't noticed that project with wipers and levers till now, but it looks interesting though.

ok, thanks for the imput,,, and yes you are right i mess the name... it is florinske sorry about that!

[wptm]

Hello Ferslash,

First, thank you pointing this out. I've been watching it for 10 minutes, and trying to figure it out.
What I've found is, that less weight should hold the axis of the wiper. As the handle has a strut. I'm not sure if this the right word, I mean where the handle or lever can turn. I'm sure that this would expand its life.
You're right, that when you larger the lever it can move more at the other end. I cannot calculate what's the best option, for me it'd be an experimentation.

So this is really interesting. The wipers are so weak, it'd be nice if a simple mechanical solution could expand their lifetime and performance.

[ferslash]

the wiper will use the "lever" effect so it will be able to hold more weight? and maybe be able to move a platform like the one florinsky did?

A wiper or any motor can produce some torque [N m].... A newton metre is a unit of torque. One newton-metre is equal to the torque resulting from a force of one newton applied perpendicularly to a moment arm which is one metre long. Like here:


With a lever arm, you can now either increase the force [N] OR the way [m]. In your example in the drawing indeed would the force be higher but you would have little movement on the simulator.

Man thanks for the explanation ...

so to make the story short... it is recommended... but may reduce sim movement... how can i calculate an intermediate lever size, in order to get the best of two worlds... less motor work, but acceptable movement ??? any idea?

best regards guys

fer

[yokoyoko]

I mean where the handle or lever can turn. I'm sure that this would expand its life.

Agree - with such a setup you will not stress the axis of the wiper so much. This is good for a platform setup - not so important for a seatmover. But to place the pivot exact in the center of gravity (of the platform) is also really important, I think.

how can i calculate an intermediate lever size, in order to get the best of two worlds... less motor work, but acceptable movement ??? any idea?

Have you seen the wiki link?

Or...

hebl.PNG (3.96 KiB) Viewed 3332 times

sum M(a) =0= -F1*l1 + F2*l2
==> -F1*l1 = F2*l2

l1 and l2 are your leverarms and the radius around point a -> Movement
F1 and F2 are your Forces -> I would take about 6-8 N m for a wiper.

[ferslash]

wow... i will read deeply the wiki link and i think that in that way calculating everithig would be "easy" thanks man!

[x1610]

it wont do much ,more force means lower speed it,s all in different lever distance

[ferslash]

Rob:

Thanks for your replay i hate when better means expensive jajaja, but at the end i think i will be using an expensive motor, the thing is that i just kind of finished my sim, it was cheap but looks and feel cheap , so insted of improving it, i think that would be better if i do it all again from scratch... that is why i am asking this

i think that i will save some money insted for a good set of parts

best regards

fer